Copeza mendimesh...

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eniad

Forumium maestatis
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

Well, well, well, I feel quite good that after a while, there's still a chance to communicate (and you know I love such exchanges). Let me think, her belief leans towards unversalism of love as compared to the commonness of romance. It might well be, but if what she says above is confirmed (the love vital to the art and existence of poets), I believe poetry is applicable to everyone, therefore, making us all poets in our fervent strive for love. Hmmm, my second question (or quite) as with Shea above is that we still have to call a meeting to come to terms on what shall we call "love".

PS. In the meantime, you know I love you /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/kiss.gif (whatever it may mean /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )
 
M

Mortal

Guest
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

At some point i agree with Arendt. Poets think they are these God send people who have but one claim in this world: to have in servitute thousands of people, to bind them to the word, to make them slaves of their own deceptions. On the other hand, i don't agree with Poe and his mathematical version of writing and demanding, just the same as the other ones, people to understand him in the way he wanted them to. And no, Poe, for me the saddest sound/letter in world is not 'R'! Anyway, it's not like he can hear me. I said it mostly to myself. Another power these poets excersise: making people doubt themselves.

People love differently now. I think, they believe they are in love. Memory in here plays a tricky part. Is it they love in their most primitive- i can't breathe, i can't live, i can't eat without you- way, or do they remember what 'loving' is through other stimulus such as poetical words, musical notes, theatrical deceptions? Being able to understand the difference leads you towards the 'pure love'. Maybe. Or maybe i'm just BS-ing.- 'Taking about love (all kinds of it)'- not my favourite topic.
 
I

irene

Primus registratum
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

ndihesh mire kur koha te verteton qe intuita s'te ka gabuar, dhe mjafton te ndeshesh me realen per ti dhene shpjegimin e duhur fjaleve dhe personave...
vertet qe virtualja pa anen realen eshte kaq e pakuptimte
 
alinos

alinos

Forumium maestatis
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

Well,
maybe you will like this particular definition of my foremost beloved novelist:
Love is a desire for that lost half of ourselves.

It makes you think about what we are looking for, and what we accept as the best treasure we could find. If you passively accept what is given to you, then you realize the superficiality and the shallowness of the half you just found. Other times, you have the illusion or the conviction you are better halves, so you keep looking and keep trying to match corners, and sometimes forget you have a round shape, maybe because everybody else has got their corners. Then, you start questioning and sometimes resenting your round shape and this is the worst crime you could commit against your unique half...

not very lucid, so before i end up bubbling, i will leave it at that.

Love you my own way /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
alinos

alinos

Forumium maestatis
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

few more quotes from him:
Anyone whose goal is 'something higher' must expect someday to suffer vertigo. What is vertigo? Fear of falling? No, Vertigo is something other than fear of falling. It is the voice of the emptiness below us which tempts and lures us, it is the desire to fall, against which, terrified, we defend ourselves.

Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being

Tomas did not realize at the time that metaphors are dangerous. Metaphors are not to be trifled with. A single metaphor can give birth to love.
Milan Kundera, The Unbearable Lightness of Being
 
M

Mortal

Guest
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

Milan Kundera... deri ne nje pike dhe pastaja behet shume...mmm...imponues ne ate qe shkruan. Sikur kelthet qe te degjohet. Ka libra te mire te tijet (qe i kam lexuar), por perseri ka dicka me kete djale qe nuk shkon.
 
E

eniad

Forumium maestatis
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shea</div><div class="ubbcode-body">At some point i agree with Arendt. Poets think they are these God send people who have but one claim in this world: to have in servitute thousands of people, to bind them to the word, to make them slaves of their own deceptions. On the other hand, i don't agree with Poe and his mathematical version of writing and demanding, just the same as the other ones, people to understand him in the way he wanted them to. And no, Poe, for me the saddest sound/letter in world is not 'R'! Anyway, it's not like he can hear me. I said it mostly to myself. Another power these poets excersise: making people doubt themselves.

People love differently now. I think, they believe they are in love. Memory in here plays a tricky part. Is it they love in their most primitive- i can't breathe, i can't live, i can't eat without you- way, or do they remember what 'loving' is through other stimulus such as poetical words, musical notes, theatrical deceptions? Being able to understand the difference leads you towards the 'pure love'. Maybe. Or maybe i'm just BS-ing.- 'Taking about love (all kinds of it)'- not my favourite topic.
</div></div>
I believe that talking about poets is quite another issue. Mine was not so much related to poetry per se, rather than Poe's notion in my angle. I mean, it was less poetic than perceived, more related to a thought I usually have. Poe, among others, would take a long discussion and being not in applicable sciences, it is rather scarce we come out with any accurate equation.

However, given that I find quite a particular interest in issues of interpretation, I might say that probably poets do not claim themselves as Gods, on the contrary, non-poets badly need them for the magic and power of suggestion of their word which these 'common mortals' let us say cannot make their own. Well, on the other hand, as for the need to be understood our own way, we're all poets. I have the feeling that deception is more of a longing by the side of the deceived, especially in the poetical terms we're considering.
Well, if poets make people doubt of themselves, I think it's worth reading them; doubts make you better, take you to improved stages. I've never wanted to imagine a person 100 percent secure of the proper self, as he/she would either be as empty as an open can or a frightening creature capable of anything.

And yes my dear, people have started to love differently, to rationalize love, but that does not bother me, but I do think, as you in the end, that words and sounds are stimuli of heart being refined, but as such, could not last long or it'll be annihilated.

E shkrova qe dje po s;munda ta postoja kete, per probleme me internetin
 
E

eniad

Forumium maestatis
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

Nuk ka si te jete ndryshe, eshte shkrimtar. Te gjithe njerezit qe shfaqen publikisht imponohen (kjo nuk eshte detyrimisht me force, por nepermjet sugjestionimit te kumtit, te cdo lloji te tij); problemi im eshte imponimi i atyre qe s'kane gje per te thene. Te kjo e fundit vertet bezdisem dhe ndihem keq, se me behet se me shtohet ndotja akustike. Problemi i metejshem ketu eshte qe keta bertasin me shume :D. Por sic ma permend shpesh kjo nusja e re /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/tonguee.gif me siper, podiumi eshte i embel per te gjithe /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/pippiripi.gif .

PS. I like you critical viewes, they lead to a discussion and I'm fond of that exchange /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wave.gif .
 
R

Rrapatushja

Nelk@
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Satin_Yearn</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> problemi im eshte imponimi i atyre qe s'kane gje per te thene. </div></div>

Huh no kidding, they are the most ambitious. I pity the enablers /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Tash per kenaqsine tuaj, po vendos recensen ne faqen e pasme te kopertines te nje libri te papam.


"Libri "_____" eshte nje veper kaleidoskopike. Me nje mendim te thelle e te trazuar si Dostojevski, me arkitekture te perkryer si kultura perse e Khajamit etj., me skena te kalkuluara ne menyre te perkryer si ne veprat e Markezit Sad, apo ne ato te Ezhen Syse; por edhe me karakteristika te mendimit te Frojdit, me qartesine psikike te tipareve te vepres se Jungut(arkitipit te njohur jungian); kjo veper mbetet tejet e bukur dhe padyshim origjinale. Cdo perqasje eshte nje asociacion, por jo identitet. Tipari me i vertete i vepres eshte origjinaliteti, origjinaliteti me "O" te madhe /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif. Ndoshta mund te ngjase qe fillimisht mbi vepren te bier pluhuri i indiferences tipike te kohes se sotme albanofobike. Por kjo nuk ka asnje rendesi. vepra ndeshet me nje dimension te vetem nga ata te shumtet qe ka bota: me kohen. Ky dimension i versulet i xhindosur nje vepre dhe lufton per te fituar mbi te. (T tjerat jane hic!) Cila do te fitoje? "______" do t'i nxjerre telashe kohes, koha veshtire se do t'ia dale ta rrezoje kete veper."
 
R

Rrapatushja

Nelk@
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shea</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...the death then of a beautiful woman is unquestionably the most poetical topic in the world, and equally is it beyond doubt that the lips best suited for such topic are those of a bereaved lover. </div></div>

Pardon me for questioning the unquestionable but i dare say that war, heroism, victory, pride, the beauty of corn, blegerime of qingj and so forth have been the most poetic topics in the world thus far /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif I'd also add that most poets are socially inept and it's this handicap that has allowed them to write so profoundly and not bereavement of any kind. /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
P

pppppaa

Primus registratum
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shea</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Milan Kundera... deri ne nje pike dhe pastaja behet shume...mmm...imponues ne ate qe shkruan. Sikur kelthet qe te degjohet . Ka libra te mire te tijet (qe i kam lexuar), por perseri ka dicka me kete djale qe nuk shkon. </div></div>

/ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eusa_think.gif
Kundera kelthet qe te degjohet ???!!!!!!
Eshte njeriu qe flet me zerin me te ulet ne univers... Ne gjatesine e valeve te tingujve qe arrihen te perceptohen nga njeriu, Kundera cik gjithmone limitin e poshtem...

Dhe e di pse?? Se ai nuk beson te zeri...
Po e ke vene re personazhet e tij nuk flasin, ata vetem mendojne.. sepse Kundera nuk beson tek zeri si promotori ideal i vokacionit qe e perfaqeson njeriun...

Kundera nuk deshiron te degjohet, ai thjesht deshiron te merret... Te tjeret ta marrin ate.
Ai nuk imponohet... thjesht ndodh qe nese ti "e merr" ate, ne nje pike te caktuar e gjen veten te nenshtruar.. Kaq thjesht ndodh....Try to catch the rhythm other than the point.
 
alinos

alinos

Forumium maestatis
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

oh po! I jep kuptim faktit qe vazhdojme te cohemi ne mengjes!!!

Ah, Kundera do te doja te shkruaja gjate, por s'perqendrohem dot tani. Njehere tjeter, I promise!
 
M

Mortal

Guest
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/eusa_think.gif
Kundera kelthet qe te degjohet ???!!!!!!
Eshte njeriu qe flet me zerin me te ulet ne univers... Ne gjatesine e valeve te tingujve qe arrihen te perceptohen nga njeriu, Kundera cik gjithmone limitin e poshtem...

Dhe e di pse?? Se ai nuk beson te zeri...
Po e ke vene re personazhet e tij nuk flasin, ata vetem mendojne.. sepse Kundera nuk beson tek zeri si promotori ideal i vokacionit qe e perfaqeson njeriun...

Kundera nuk deshiron te degjohet, ai thjesht deshiron te merret... Te tjeret ta marrin ate.
Ai nuk imponohet... thjesht ndodh qe nese ti "e merr" ate, ne nje pike te caktuar e gjen veten te nenshtruar.. Kaq thjesht ndodh....Try to catch the rhythm other than the point. </div></div>

/ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Ke bere nje parafrazim shume te mire per faqen prapa te nje libri te Kunderes. Nje liber eshte nje pamflete: baza tre. Ke kopertinen, ke fundin ke dhe faqen ne mes... qe permban te gjithe ate qe do justifikoje ato 10-15 dollare qe shpenzove.
Gjithesesi.

Mua sme pelqejne gjeneralizimet, dhe ajo cfare ke shkruar ti (edhe pse jam dakort deri ne nje fare pike) eshte nje i tille. Kundera kelthet. Tek veprat e tija ke nje paralelizem te dy boteve ngjashmerisht te ndryshme: mashkull vs. femra. Ai eshte teper seksist, qe te ben te godasesh me shuplake femrat e tija: Chantal, Theresa...etj. Kur lexoj Kunderen me duket vehtja si Kont Ugolini, por ndryshe nga ai qe ushqehej tek Ruxheri, une ushqehem me/tek vehten/ja ime.

Ti thua Kundera nuk 'klith' si nje kafshe e plagosur, atehere cfare e quan qyrravitjen ne te gjithe novelen 'Identiteti' te Jean-Marc per kete: 'Meshkujt nuk ndalin te me shikojne me'? , apo kjo: 'Vdekja e saj kishte qene me te ne momentin kur ai ra ne dashuri me te'...'Vetem se, ne realitet, nje enderr e keqe mbaron shpejt, ti fillon therret dhe zgjohesh, por une smund te therrisja. Dhe ajo ishte me e keqja e te gjithave: pamundesia per te therritur'...etj, etj, spo me kujtohen te gjithe.

Kundera eshte nje kontrollues i tmerrshem i karaktereve te tija. Si nje piston ai i shtyp ata, ju ze fytin pa e kuptuar se e klithura nuk eshte artikulim tingujsh...eshte cirrje e shpirtit. E karakteret e tija jane shume te mbyllur, te alienuar nga bota rreth, pothuajse te depresionuar. Por Kundera i njef mire karakteret e tija, njeriun dhe boten e brendshme. Ai i godet ata, jo me fortesine e nje grushti, por me majen e nje gjilpere...vazhdimisht, ritmikisht...derisa ata mpihen dhe mesohen te jetojne me kete ritem. Kundera eshte teper hipnotizues per nje mendje te virgjer ne kesisoj psikoanaliza. Teper i detajuar, ai provokon durimin e lexuesit, ku cdo kalim faqeje shoqerohet me nje tundje vazhdimisht te kembes ne shenje nervozizmi. Nqs del dikush qe thote: 'E shijon Kunderen'- ai genjen. E thote per efekt. Ai nuk ka lexuar Kunderen. Kundera te c'orienton...etj, etj. S'eshte tema per kete pune. Me duket kam hapur nje teme per Kunderen, mund te kritikojme/diskutojme atje.

Pse gjithemone Kundera ben analize trupash femre? Pse karakteret e tija shperfytyrohen? Pse vdekja eshte nje e perbashket mes karakteresh dhe nje element zgjues/shkundes (jo ne kuptimin tragjik/dramatik) te karaktereve?


Nga se ndryshojne femrat e Bukowski-t me femrat e Kunderes?


Cfare kam shkruar, sigurisht mbeshtet ne preference personale. Me pelqen te lexoj Kunderen. E gjej shume argetuese.
 
Al-Punk

Al-Punk

Still here
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

Diku ne shtepi kam shenuar faqet e nje libri te Kunderes ku dy trupat bejne dashuri pa dashur t'ia dine per shpirtin qe ndjehet i mundur. Eshte i vetmi pasazh ku kam hasur Kunderen te flase per trupin. Cdo gje tjeter sillet dickaje tjeter qe nuk mund ta akoma nuk kam mundur ta artikuloj
Femrat e Bukowskit ishin nje zhveshje e moralit femeror. Femrat e Kunderes jane dicka tjeter
 
M

Mortal

Guest
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

Uh-uh... Kundera eshte gjithenje koshient per trupin e femres, qofte nepermjet mashkullit, qofte nepermjet vete femres-karakter te tijen. 'Trupat e tyre gjithenje ecin/humbin ne grumbullin e miliona trupave te tjere...deri ne momentin kur deshirohen.' (pershtatje e perdhunuar e pasazhit, se mbaj mend plotesisht).

Ndersa femrat e Bukowski-t...mmmm. Si thote ai: 'Sa me shume i njef femrat aq me teper veteperqendrimi i tyre shfaqet. Ndonjehere eshte qesharak- por vetem ne fillim'.

E me pas ai shkruan: 'Humanizmi, ti nuk e ke patur qe ne lindje'.
Ndersa Kundera i overdoses femrat e tija me 'humanizem'. Dyshimi- eshte paraziti ne trupin e tyre- baza e mendimin.
 
R

Rrapatushja

Nelk@
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Poster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Po e ke vene re personazhet e tij nuk flasin, ata vetem mendojne.. sepse Kundera nuk beson tek zeri si promotori ideal i vokacionit qe e perfaqeson njeriun...
</div></div>

Zakonisht kur personazhet mendojne(mendime te cilat i marrim vesh nga autori i gjitheditur) me teper se sa flasin, ata vec vene ne pah pazotesine e autorit per te shkruar. /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif
 
R

Rrapatushja

Nelk@
Re: Copeza mendimesh...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shea</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
E karakteret e tija jane shume te mbyllur, te alienuar nga bota rreth, pothuajse te depresionuar. </div></div>

Hah sounds right on point to me /ubb/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif His characters are perhaps the only nugget of authenticity. K. superimposes his belief system without allowing himself the journey of discovery through writing. That's why his characters "think" more than they talk, it's like my diary. As the saying goes literature(art) for the sake of literature(art)
 
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