Ukraina ne shenjester!

Ukraina ne shenjester!

Pas shpalljes se votimeve ne Ukraine ku kandidati i mbeshtetur nga amerikanet humbi, Sekretari i Shtetit Kolin Pauell shpalli se nuk i njeh rezultatet!
Kush i autorizion keta plehra te gjykojne per zgjedhjet ne nje vend i cili eshte vec te tjerash edhe djepi i Rusise?
Po sikur Ukraina te mos njihte zgjedhjet presidenciale amerikane?
A jemi drejt nje krize te madhe midis Rusise dhe USA?
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Ja "Nanot" e Ukraines! Nje nga kapot qe leshojne thirrje histerike per destabilizim!


The millionaire revolutionary

She has been a powerful voice during this week's protests in Kiev. But who is Yulia Tymoshenko?
James Meek reports

Friday November 26, 2004
The Guardian

Had she been an international tennis star, a Hollywood actress or a supermodel, Yulia Tymoshenko's face would have long been familiar from a thousand front pages and magazine covers. As a woman who in the space of a few years has merely managed to become a multi-billionaire and deputy prime minister of one of Europe's largest countries, however, she has remained - until recently - obscure to the world.

Throughout this week's protests against election fraud in Kiev, Tymoshenko has appeared at the right-hand side of the opposition leader, Viktor Yushchenko. Arm in arm, they make a noble couple. Yushchenko's face, ravaged by a mysterious illness - rumoured to be deliberate poisoning by his enemies - looks at once wise, tough and vulnerable next to the demure, delicate Tymoshenko, in her unadorned fur coat. Her hair is neatly parted and bound with a plait against the back of her head in conscious emulation of the traditional style of Ukrainian peasant girls. In one particularly revealing image (right), the round, rosy face of the former speaker of the Ukrainian parliament, Ivan Plyushch, appears over Yushchenko's shoulder like some jovial uncle from the home village.

But Tymoshenko's peasant look is somewhat misleading. She is in fact a very wealthy woman, who gained her fortune in highly debated circumstances before entering politics. She made the transition from a member of Ukraine's disliked new moneyed elite to a skilled marshal of the anger of the public square three years ago, when she mounted an energetic, if ultimately unsuccessful, campaign to topple the increasingly loathed president, Leonid Kuchma. Her original entry into politics came earlier, in the mid-1990s; but her Hromada party was seen then as only one of a rash of factions cynically created by the new tycoons to advance their business interests.
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In recent days, Tymoshenko has put her street protest experience to good use on behalf of Yushchenko and the massed crowds of protesters on Kiev's Independence Square and its broad central street, Kreshchatik. Indeed some, like Yuri Boldyrev, a former independent MP turned political analyst, say that she is the hardliner in the opposition leadership, the least willing to compromise and the one most ready to push the authorities to the limit. "She is an iron lady, a serious woman, the real force behind [Yushchenko]," says Boldyrev.

It was Tymoshenko whose oratory put fire in the bellies of a column of demonstrators, sending them marching up the steep slope from Kreshchatik towards the government district, right up to the presidential office on Bankova Street. It was Tymoshenko who, when opposition marchers closed on the ranks of riot police barring the way to the presidential office earlier this week, urged the police to make the perilous mental leap from defenders of the status quo to rebels. "Be on the side of citizens of Ukraine!" she called through a loudhailer, before posting carnations through their police shields. "I ask you to support the people and the president elected by the people!" And it was Tymoshenko who, in the end, accepted the police offer to slip through the lines for consultations with the authorities, assuring them that the protesters wouldn't break anything. But who is Tymoshenko? Is she the dedicated champion of free-market values, Ukrainian independence and European liberal ideals she and her supporters would claim her to be? Or is she a darker, more compromised figure, whose own record might tarnish an opposition victory?

Few would question her personal charisma, or the iron will that has enabled her to become, at 44, one of the central figures in a Ukrainian political and business world that is otherwise dominated by men. Ukraine is not a straightforwardly patriarchal society, but the power of women has traditionally been exercised in the personal, domestic sphere.

Certainly Tymoshenko is not renowned for her modesty. On her personal website, browsers are in vited to check the boxes in a poll (in English, as well as in Ukrainian). "In what position will Yulia Tymoshenko's activity be most effective?" the poll asks. There are four options: "President", "prime minister", "parliamentary speaker", and "other". Elsewhere on the site there are picture of her husband Olexander and her daughter Yevgeniya, who studied politics at the London School of Economics.

Tymoshenko was born in 1960 in Dnipropetrovsk, one of the arsenals of Soviet totalitarianism, a Russian-speaking eastern city in a sea of Ukrainian-speaking villages. She trained as an economist. The city has a political heritage, and was the power base both of Leonid Brezhnev and of Ukraine's president for the past 10 years, Kuchma. Kuchma first arrived in Kiev pulling a long train of friends from Dnipropetrovsk behind him. Tymoshenko benefited from this connection through her acquaintance with Pavlo Lazarenko, who became Ukraine's prime minister in 1996.

Lazarenko claimed to have a plan that would solve Ukraine's perpetual energy crisis - the fact that factories were not able to pay for Russian gas. He set up a network of regional gas monopolies which supplied gas to companies in exchange for whatever those companies had to offer: cash, goods, or shares. One of the biggest beneficiaries of this system was a company set up and run by Tymoshenko, United Energy System.

These were heady times for the hungry young tycoon. According to Matthew Brzezinski's 2001 book Casino Moscow, which devotes a chapter to Tymoshenko entitled The Eleven Billion Dollar Woman, she was guarded by an entire platoon of ex-Soviet special forces bodyguards. She once sent a plane to collect Brzezinski from Moscow, fly him to Dnipropetrovsk to meet her for lunch, and drop him off back at Moscow in the evening. When Brzezinski said he didn't want to tie up the company plane, Tymoshenko said: "Don't worry. I have four of them."

According to Brzezinski, as a result of Lazarenko's patronage, "Tymoshenko gained control over nearly 20% of Ukraine's gross national product, an enviable position that probably no other private company in the world could boast."

Her rapid rise, and her friendship with Lazarenko, would later return to haunt her. Lazarenko fell from favour, was sacked amid accusations of corruption in 1997, and fled Ukraine. In June this year, he was convicted of money-laundering and extortion in California. At first, Tymoshenko was able to distance herself from the scandal - in the short-lived premiership of Yushchenko, she became deputy prime minister - but as her relationship with Kuchma cooled, she became drawn into the scandal. She was accused of having given Lazarenko kickbacks in exchange for her company's stranglehold on the country's gas supplies. It is an accusation she has always denied, although Brzezinski maintains it is true. "The US government has evidence of wire transfers from her to Lazarenko personally while he was PM," he told me yesterday.

Whatever the truth of the gas saga, the vast personal enrichment of Tymoshenko when so many ordinary Ukrainians were going poor and hungry made her unpopular in the late 1990s. Her redemption began only with her fall from power. In February 2001 she was arrested by the authorities on charges of corruption, and put in prison for a month. Once the charges were dropped, she led a street-level campaign against President Kuchma for his alleged role in the murder of the journalist Georgi Gongadze. The following year she was in a mysterious car accident that almost killed her - an episode some believe may have been a government assassination attempt. But while for the time being she is proving a great and popular rebel leader, no one really knows what she stands for.

This time around, there is a sense that Tymoshenko is determined to push and tug the crowds into finishing the job against the Kuchma regime and its appointed successors. Yesterday, she told the crowd in Independence Square that the opposition would blockade the centres of power in Kiev: "We are launching a siege of the authorities."

"She's charming, she's good-looking, she says all the right things - but don't let any of that fool you," says Brzezinski. "She's a pretty tough cookie.
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

E e e, e gjora Shqiperi ne 1996 na paska qene nje kavje per tu marre shembull ne Serbi, Bjellorusi, Gjeorgji dhe Ukraine sot!

Ukraine: Diary of a Dissident Observer

by Christine Stone

Another year, another revolution – this time in Ukraine. First there was Albania (1996), then Serbia (2000), followed in 2003 by Georgia's "rose revolution." As though conceived by the same scriptwriter, they all fit the same fairy-tale pattern whereby a dictatorial regime tries to steal an election from the reforming, Western-orientated opposition. Western election observers cry foul, and the people's indignation erupts on to the streets, followed by the quick collapse of the government. New elections are scheduled and won overwhelmingly by the opposition.

The schema is now so well developed that commentators had predicted for some time that Ukraine's 2004 presidential election would be hijacked by a "chestnut revolution," so named to denote its autumn scheduling. One would have thought that the media might have begun to smell a rat – after all, who pays for all the paraphernalia that goes with a "spontaneous revolution": the round-the-clock rock concerts with their slick sound systems and free food, drink, and clothes? Five days into the protests in Kiev, the BBC's Ben Brown was actually asked this question, but answer came there none.

So, what was going on in Ukraine? According to the received wisdom, Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich, an old Soviet throwback, won the presidential election in a run off held on Nov. 21, but only by massive voter fraud conveniently perpetrated by his supporters in the industrial heartland of eastern Ukraine. In the west of the country and in the capital Kiev, the challenger Viktor Yushchenko won overwhelmingly but was still 3 million votes short of absolute victory.

As Antiwar's Justin Raimondo has pointed out, Viktor Yushchenko is not an exciting new face – he ran Ukraine's national bank in the 1990s and was prime minister from 2000-01. Although beloved of the West, he is less popular at home, having presided over a massive decline in standard of living. His revolutionary sidekick, the lady oligarch Yulia Tymoshenko, also has a long pedigree. According to Matthew Brzezinski, "The U.S. government has evidence of wire transfers from her to Lazarenko personally while he was PM." Lazarenko has since been convicted of corruption. Their one-time patron is Leonid Kuchma, the country's outgoing president once called "the Bismarck of Ukraine" by analyst James Sherr but who fell out of favor with the West by 2001. Yushchenko's main opponent in the presidential poll, Viktor Yanukovich, was a regional boss from the east of the country. He promised to reintroduce Russian as a state language alongside Ukrainian and improve relations with Moscow, which inevitably led to accusations of resurgent Russian imperialism in the near abroad.

I observed both rounds of the election and have to say, not for the first time, that the fairy-tale version of events does not chime in with my own experiences. Perhaps a trawl through my observer's diary will provide some surprising revelations about what went on in the latest explosion of "people power."

Thursday, Oct. 28: It's my first visit to Ukraine for two years, and it's immediately obvious that the capital Kiev has undergone a makeover. The shabby old place has been cleaned up; there's no litter or graffiti in the streets. Old buildings are being restored. The shops sell clothes affordable to the locals, while food halls are bursting with (local) produce. How different from "reformed" capitals like Vilnius and Riga, where the outlets of European fashion houses charge astronomical prices and there are no customers. Statistics show that Ukraine's economy has grown by 11% since Mr. Yanukovich's government came to power and there has been a bumper harvest for 2004. It will be interesting to find out why, then, he should be so unpopular in the capital city.

A few stragglers in old Soviet uniforms loiter in the lobby of the Ukrainia hotel. Earlier in the day there had been a military parade, commemorating 60 years of Ukraine's liberation from the Nazis, attended by Vladimir Putin. Yet another example of Moscow's "interference" in the presidential election, according to critics.

Friday, Oct. 29: It's time to visit the candidates' campaign offices. There are 13 challengers for the presidency, but everyone knows that the race basically comes down to a battle between Yushchenko and Yanukovich. The latter's headquarters are downtown in an old Soviet cinema where, two days before the poll, little seems to be going on. In fact, there's no one about at all. Finally, a spokesman, Gennadi Korzh, appears to brief our group. Mr. Korzh begins by telling us that he would rather live next to the Alps than the Urals. He once worked with the OSCE in Nagorno Karabakh and, after reminiscing about "peace processes" past and present, he slams Russia's policy in Chechnya! This comes as something of a surprise, as Mr. Yanukovich is supposed to be an ardent supporter of Moscow. Criticizing its policy in Chechnya is not the usual way to the Kremlin's heart.

Korzh says that the government is fully aware that protests are likely to erupt if the election results in the "wrong" candidate winning – and, yes, the security services are prepared. He's even up to speed on the activities of the student group Pora, pointing out that the authorities threw "advisors" from Serbia's Otpor out of the country. However, he won't accept that Georgia's agitacni organization, Kmara, is in the same league – for Mr. Korzh, Georgia is different, less "European" than Serbia and Ukraine.

As we prepare to leave, Korzh offers more coffee and chat. But we are off to Mr. Yushchenko's press office, an Internet café with a small conference room attached, in the trendier part of Kiev known as Podil, just down the road from Mikhail Bulgakov's house. Oleg, a young activist, rehearses his woes. The media, apart from independent Channel 5 (which started conveniently in 2003), is totally subservient to the Yanukovich campaign and never shows their candidate. There will be massive fraud on polling day as the electoral registers are "full of mistakes." As he drones on, the other young activisti start to panic, bringing in posters and other electoral materials from the street. A pro-Yanukovich march is approaching the office and they've had bad experiences already with beatings, etc., from the prime minister's supporters.

So, we go outside and await the confrontation. Several thousand badly dressed young people carrying blue flags pass by in an orderly fashion. There is no violence, barely a word uttered in anger. But do not be deceived, we are told, these people are shameless and they will stage "provocations" at the public meeting they are about to hold. So, we follow them to the meeting and, presto, nothing happens.

Saturday, Oct. 30: More meetings. This time with the Committee of Ukrainian Voters, a domestic observer group that is the local election watchdog. The organization exists exclusively on Western funding, so no surprises to see Kerry/Edwards stickers on the office walls as they are mainly backed by the American NDI. In a rare act of self-preservation, the Ukrainian government has refused to allow the group's representatives to monitor inside polling stations aware, no doubt, of the mischief caused by the "independent" Fair Elections group in Georgia last year. Nevertheless, they intend to smuggle themselves in as "journalists."

Once again, we are told about the organizational shambles surrounding the election: people can't find their polling stations, some are shut, and, of course, there are those unsatisfactory voter lists. My eyes drift up to a photograph of Madeleine Albright on a nearby book case. I wonder what she has to say about election fraud?

But now there is more excitement. We get news that journalists at "independent" Channel 5 are on hunger strike as the authorities have shut down the station. In fact, for a brief period of time, cable transmission to a few places in Ukraine stopped but has since resumed. In other words, it's a storm in a tea cup. But that doesn't stop the protesters. We join a gaggle of people at Channel 5's offices waiting for permission to visit the beleaguered strikers. Among them is a lady diplomat from the Slovak embassy with two bearded journalists from Slovak TV. When she learns that we are international observers, their camera starts to whir as she demands to know about the "appalling" state of the electoral registers. It's a good try, but election observers are not supposed to comment on the conduct of the poll until it's over.

We are led through Channel 5's sparkling new office suite to the strikers. They are all in their late teens and early twenties, wearing the orange regalia of the Yushchenko camp and clutching teddy bears and other furry animals donated by well-wishers. The Slovak diplomat rushes forward to offer support from one of the New Europe's most craven members; we learn later that the Canadian ambassador has also been on the scene expressing "solidarity" with the strike. So much for the niceties of diplomatic behavior.

It gets even more bizarre. Aliona Matuzko, the PR director of Channel 5, isn't on hunger strike, as the management realized that if they all refused food they wouldn't be able to work! So they go on hunger strike in shifts – presumably in between breakfast, lunch, and dinner. She says that the channel's broadcasting license was removed by court order on Oct. 13, but, despite living in Mr. Yanukovich's Stalinist power house, they continue to broadcast, seemingly without any meaningful interference.

A journalist from Crimea joins in the conversation. Don't we realize that Mr. Yushchenko has been poisoned by a government-administered bacteriological agent? We say we don't know, although rumors that Mr. Yushchenko's facial problems might be due to John Kerry-style botox injections that have gone wrong is an attractive hypothesis. Instead, we ask him if he thinks there have been economic improvements in Ukraine. It's true, he says, but that's all due to the opposition, not the government.

Sunday, Oct. 31: It's election day at last and the sun is shining, which is good for turnout. I observe with a colleague in Kiev and then on to Zhitomir 80 miles west. Again, one is struck by the economic renaissance encountered on the way. Roads are good, and new houses are being built everywhere. Zhitomir itself, which a friend described as a terrible dump from previous visits, also appears to be thriving.

So far, we haven't encountered any problems. Despite the warning from Madeleine Albright's friends, all the polling stations seem to be open and functioning efficiently – there is none of the organizational mayhem of previous Ukrainian elections. Some election registers have been corrected between publication and polling day. However, most inaccuracies seem explicable, caused by faulty transliteration of names from Russian into Ukrainian. However, while visiting a polling station in the Music School in Zhitomir (where Sviatislav Richter studied), a thuggish fellow in a black leather jacket approaches to inform us that there are "hundreds" of people down at the local town hall, complaining about being left off the electoral rolls. He leaves the building with an associate in a large black BMW.

As he goes, the lady chairman of the polling station informs us that the OSCE has just passed through. OSCE observers inform the authorities of the exact time and place of their visit. In other words, troublemakers know in advance where to allege "fraud" and malpractice. Down at the town hall, about 40 people are milling around with a variety of complaints – one heavily pregnant woman doesn't want to trail back to her village to vote. None seem particularly important and, anyway, an official is attending to each one of them and often giving permission to vote.

Back to Kiev, where we encounter two OSCE observers in the polling station where we will watch the count, which is tedious but problem-free. They haven't seen anything wrong during the day and neither have our colleagues who ring in from Crimea, Yanukovich territory. I tell them that I will be surprised if the OSCE's final report reflects their experiences.

Monday, Nov1: The next day, the OSCE comes down hard on the poll, as predicted, particularly on the voting in eastern Ukraine. We visit Mr. Korzh again and ask him whether the Yanukovich camp is going to counter with the serious allegations made by Russian observers of the conduct of the poll in the Yushchenko heartland, around Lviv and Ivano Frankivsk in the west. No, says Korzh, we don't control that region! So much for the regime's many-tentacled grip on power.

It has all been very strange. The government doesn't seem to control anything much here. We have been watching the "biased" local television stations, which air interviews with politicians of all hues – on Saturday night, they even showed the strikers and their teddy bears at Channel 5. Mr. Yanukovich himself is almost invisible. So bewildered are we that we set out to interview journalists at a supposedly pro-government, Russian-language newspaper, Segodnya. Alexander Korchinsky starts out by recommending the views of the opposition-oriented, foreign-funded Committee of Ukrainian Voters! He and a colleague then proceed to tell us how they are obliged by law (unlike Channel 5) to be "objective" about the election; the paper has no bias toward any of the candidates.

It's much the same story when we return for the runoff between the two Viktors on Nov. 21 – this time in and around the small town of Uzhgorod in western Ukraine. Mr. Yanukovich's representatives here are tucked away in a dark street on the edge of town. Everything is fine, they say, and well conducted. They seem unaware of the storm that is brewing or of the harsh winds of change that are coming their way.

Meanwhile, the television is still spewing out its "biased" coverage, only this time (over a three-day period) we see no sign whatsoever of Mr. Yanukovich. They don't even show him voting! We learn that the evil state television, UT1, regularly gives over its frequency after 10 p.m. to opposition TV ERA. On the night before the poll (during the supposed election silence), ERA broadcasts long interviews with "experts" detailing ways in which the election will be falsified. The talking heads are interposed with various local rock stars, celebs, and even the winner of this year's Eurovision Song Contest, Ruslana, urging people to go out and vote for "reform." They are all sporting ribbons, scarves, etc., in the opposition color, orange.

Again, the poll seems to be conducted properly. This is Yushchenko territory, and they are all voting for him here and for "Europe." They, too, accept that life has improved over the past two years, but that's not good enough. They want it to be even better, and, by the way, what is the basic salary in England? A local election official hints that there has been pressure to vote for the opposition, something confirmed by a letter sent to me from Lvov, which states that people are "obliged to vote for Yushchenko or they are doomed, a traitor, venal and unemployed." Later, during the count in Uzhgorod, Mr. Yanukovich's official observer tells me that his candidate will win the election but only by cheating! He himself is really a supporter of the opposition.

However, despite the high level of enthusiasm for Mr. Yushchenko in western Ukraine, the region is depopulated following 12 bitter years of economic reform. It's even suggested that voting cards delivered for those living abroad have been used several times over to bump up the turnout. There are more people in the east with, in their eyes, more to lose by all Yushchenko's talk of joining the EU and NATO, and they vote in large numbers for Mr. Yanukovich. The reaction, as predicted, is harsh. The OSCE slams the results and blames the Yanukovich camp for widespread fraud in the east of the country. Gradually the stage extras emerge with their orange outfits, rock concerts, and tremulous priests to express the "indignation of the people." For 10 days, a few thousand students and elderly people manage to bring the capital to a halt, buoyed by 24-hour drooling Western media coverage.

Where were the feared militia and secret police? Where, for that matter, were the neo-imperialist forces of Mr. Putin? We were told that elite Spetznatz formations were about to storm the demonstrations, but they never appeared. In fact, when negotiations finally brought the standoff to an end with the promise of fresh elections, it was the EU's Javier Solana, not a representative from Moscow, who clinched the deal. Russia and Ukraine were united for over a thousand years; they are next-door neighbors, but it would be "imperialism" for Moscow to have a look in. It was Solana and his buddies, presidents Kwasniewski (Poland) and Adamkus (Lithuania) from the "New Europe" who provided the convenient fig leaf for Washington's meddling, thus refuting the vain hope of some that, post-Iraq, the EU stands for some kind of independent foreign policy. In truth, they are all parasites and scroungers: the Euros looking to flood the place with hypermarkets selling European products while the U.S. gets a new NATO member with a naval base on the Black Sea and lots of cannon fodder for future wars.

So, why was it so easy to collapse a country that after 10 hard years had begun to improve the lives of its citizens? The truth is that, although the Yanukovich government was delivering the economic goods, it did not control the state organs of power, especially the security services and the police. And, as pointed out, the media was not really in the government's hands. Undoubtedly, much money in the form of bribes, grants to "civil society," and scholarships abroad had been lavishly distributed, particularly in the capital Kiev. This only served to increase the average Kievan's opinion of himself/herself as "cool" and a bit of an "intellectual," unlike the bumpkins to the east. Was there "massive cheating" in the east of the country? My colleagues who have been there doubt it. If there was, it was on no greater scale than the (ignored) malpractice in western Ukraine.

But there were also other, more unpleasant, elements associated with the opposition, like the paramilitary, anti-Semitic group UNSO, which originates in western Ukraine. In fact, anti-Semitism exhibited by some Ukrainians from the west of the country, and also in the diaspora that fled with the Nazis in 1944, is blatant. Web sites like the Ukrainian Archive deny the Holocaust and portray Jews like Eli Wiesel as rapists of "white" women. But despite its usual distaste for any manifestation of anti-Semitism, Washington isn't worried. One Republican Party insider commentated that there wasn't a problem; there is "no anti-Semitism in Ukraine."

As the bizarre events unfolded in Kiev and everything seemed to move in lock step – except for those evil imperialists in Moscow who were nowhere to be seen – one even began to wonder whether Mr. Yanukovich himself wasn't part of the plot. In the odd, fleeting glimpse of the man who attracted "saturation" coverage from the local media, he always looked as though he was about to burst into tears. He wasn't up to "cracking down" on anything, not even to shooing away the grungy students whose tents and garbage made getting around central Kiev so difficult. It was hardly the behavior of a responsible leader, let alone a tyrant. But then perhaps his role in the script was to be the mouse that didn't roar, the specter at the feast.
 

OROSHI

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Antares,mu me bani shum pershtypje kultura e popullit Ukrainas,kundershtaret duke protestuar ne te njejtin vend dhe duke pire/krah per krah me njeri-tjetrin,pra bie poshte krahasimi me ne!!
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Orosh djali! Une nuk krahasova sjelljen dhe kulturen e Ukrainasve me ne po skenaret e poshter qe po luhen ne kurriz te tyre ashtu si te ne ne 1996-1997!
 

OROSHI

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Te asht ba menja "skenar" ty plako,nuk te shko menja nojher te "vullneti i popullit per ndryshime rrenjesore"??
Filo-Kuchma-ist /pf/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Akoma "te ura" ti: vullneti i popullit!
Populli eshte nje turme gomeresh qe e terheq per hunde si te duash! Ja ti p.sh. ke votuar per Nanon disa here se ke besuar se do te te ktheje paret e humbura ne bixhoz. Dhe keshtu shumica e shqiptareve. Dhe tani shesin droge dhe veten rrugeve te Europes si qener!

Si te duket Shqiperia sot, me mire apo me keq se para 1997?
Ti kujton se nuk kishte prapaskena?
E pra une nuk e di se ku ke qene ti deri ne 2002 (ndoshta ne Bruksel), kurse une kam qene ne Shqiperi!
Po ajo loje e ndyre u be ne Serbi, Gjeorgji, Bjellorusi (deshtoi) dhe sot ne Ukraine!
Ata qe do te vere perendimi ne krye te Ukraines jane thjesht oligarke ose shqip hajdute me cizme qe do t'ja shesin Ukrainen per hic gje Amerikes dhe Europes! Imagjino Nanon (po jo halabak fare)!
 

Kondrapedali

Kondrapedali
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Orosh, jam dakort me Antaresin përsa i përket "vullnetit të populli". Vullneti i popullit është një "marque de commerce" e cila përdoret sipas rastit kundër njërës apo tjetrës forcë në interes të ujqërve të mëdhej.
Edhe në Ukrainë duket sikur ka dhënë rezultate dhe në qoftë kështu atëherë Europa bie rehat me Rsuin dhe mund të tentojë ta bëjë pjesë të vetën por tashmë jo si aleat por si vartës të saj. Pra Rusia humbet statusin e saj si Fuqi e Madhe dhe i mbetet vetëm kujtimi që dikur ajo ka qenë e tillë. Ty a të besohet se kjo mund të ndodhi shpejt edhe pse Rusia është e kalbur kokë e këmbë?
 

bob

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

me ne fund vullneti i popullit u plotesua.
kjo tregon se intrigat ruse moren fund,
triumfoi politika njerezore e demokratike e Europes dhe e SHBA.tani mund te flitet per nje triumf te te drejtave te popullit dhe jo e oligarkeve dhe e mashtruese.
uroj qe kete vullnet te mire ta kemi edhe ne,duhet patjeter te marrim shembull nga ngjyra portokalli e Ukrainasve per ti dhene fund qelbesirave,funderrinave "socialiste"(komuniste)
BRAVO UKRAINA!!!
 

OROSHI

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

O Kondra/Antares,me mire nen Evrope/Amerike sesa nen nje vend (Rusi)qe vetem skeletin e ka kockemadh,sipas jush ne kete problem qenkan bere bashke Evropa dhe Amerika :confused: ,Arushes se semure te Siberise i duhen hequr dhembet nje nga nje,deri tani i jane hequr rreth 10-12 dhembe /pf/images/graemlins/laugh.gif ,une jam per nje Evrope te forte ku te kete nen kontroll te saj Rusine.Nje politikan Anglez ka thene:rreziku me i madh per njerzimin eshte Rusia!!
 

Kondrapedali

Kondrapedali
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Orosho, shum dakort me ty mër lal po ajo që unë kam thënë e vazhdoj të them është se kam frikë se mos Rusia bën ndonjë të pabërë :shrug: . Se kush është më mirë apo më keq kjo është relative, në varësi të modelit shoqëror. Për ne është modeli perëndimor, për ukrainasit... nuk e kam idenë :shrug: . Ndofta janë dy modele (të reflektuara edhe në zgjedhjet).
Shpresoj që gjithçka të shkojë qetë e që të jetë vullneti i popullit që do të realizohet. Megjithatë për sa më përket mua do dëshiroja më shumë një Ukrainë europiane se amerikane!
 

besim231071

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Kam mendime aq te ngjashme kundrapedalin saqe mendoj se mand te kemi studiuar ne nje bibloteke.
Nuk e them me shaka,keshtu me duket me te vertete.
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Bigger Worries Than Ukraine

by Charley Reese

Do you know who Viktor Yanukovich is? Do you know who Viktor Yushchenko is? Do you know what either man stands for? Could you take a blank map of Europe and draw in the boundaries of Ukraine?

For most of us, the answer to all of the above is "No." The two Viktors are rivals in the disputed contest for the presidency of Ukraine. We don't know because it does not concern us. According to superficial news reports – and "superficial" is the operative word in journalism – one man is alleged to be pro-Western, and the other, pro-Russian.

If true, it still does not concern us, and the U.S. government ought to get its nose out of the business of Ukrainian politics. It is more important for the United States to have good relations with Russia than it is to have good relations with Ukraine. Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union for decades, and it lies on the border of Russia. It is therefore rationally of great interest to Russia to have a friendly government in power. What kind of government Ukrainians have doesn't concern us at all.

The reason is quite simple: At the end of the Cold War, the Russians withdrew all of their nuclear weapons from Ukraine. Our relations with Russia matter because they concern the question of war or peace; our relations with Ukraine don't matter because there is nothing Ukraine can do for us or to us.

One of the flaws of the Bush administration's foreign policy is the belief that we are the world's last remaining superpower, and therefore, might making right, we can shape the entire world to our liking.

That is flawed for several reasons. One is that whether we are the sole superpower depends entirely on one's definition of "superpower." Russia has the nuclear capability of wiping us off the face of the Earth. The Russians could do that in about 30 minutes. True, we could wipe them off the face of the Earth in retaliation, but that would be of little comfort to the survivors in either country.

A statesman must always look at capabilities, not at intentions. Intentions can change in minutes. Capabilities cannot. So long as Russia has the capability of destroying us, it is of paramount importance that we not allow political disputes to escalate out of control. We would not like it if Russia decided to play a role in the elections in Canada or Mexico, and the Russians don't like it, for the same reason, that we are attempting to play a role in Ukrainian elections.

A second flaw in American imperialistic foreign policy is that we are, frankly, incompetent. Our government has designated as "pro-Western" some of the worst human beings ever to walk on this Earth. We have installed far more dictators than we have democrats, and every time the blowback has cost us. The Iranians don't like us because we deposed their democratically chosen leader and imposed on them the dictatorship of the Shah of Iran.

Surely most Americans realize that the unusual amount of hostility toward us is not because the rest of the world consists of New England liberals. Even the Pentagon has finally come up with a study that says exactly what I, the rest of the world, and even al-Qaeda have been saying: The world hates our foreign policy, not us, and not because we are free or rich but because we are arrogantly attempting to dominate the world.

I see in the Bush administration the same arrogance that led to the demise of the British Empire. Arrogance leads you to underestimate your opponents and to overestimate your own capabilities. It is a dangerous trait for a head of state.

God knows we have serious domestic problems that need our attention. Still-porous borders, a record federal deficit, a record trade deficit, a falling dollar, a healthcare crisis and a failed public education system are more than enough for us to deal with without worrying about who gets elected in Ukraine.

President George II should beware of emulating the mistakes made by King George III.
 

OROSHI

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Antares,nuk e di se kujt i sherbejne artikujt e pafund qe poston ketu,lexoji vete plako dhe na sjell permbajtjen :thumbsup: me fjalet e tua!!Ukraina dihet se ka dy kahe te zhvillimit dhe kultures,por nuk duhet te harrojme qe kahu perendimor eshte me i madh se ai lindor,ne veri kane sunduar Habsburget(me falni per josaktesine e emrit te kesaj shtepie Mbreterore) me shekuj!!
Kondra,nga frika se Ruset mund te bejne ndonje te pabere,cfar duhet te beje bota???Duhet t'a bombardoje??Jo,ta dobsoje ekonomikisht dhe t'a zvogeloje ne territore!1Ajo pjese qe do i mbetet Rusise Cariste do jetoje me mire,te pakten!!Une kam nje mendim/enderr:Rusia do hyje ne Evrope dhe Nato rreth 2030,mos u cuditni,shume gjera te paparashikueshme kane ndodhur keto 30 vjetet e fundit!!
 

Xhaferr

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

orosh, rusia ka hyre ne nato dhe habsburget skan pase asnjeher ndonje territor ukraines. ne fillim e kishte turiqia pastaj ja mori rusia. sa per ukrainen, sja vlen ta diskutosh fare. dihet qe populli kerkon me shume marredhenje me perendimin sesa me rusin, kush eshte ai gomarr qe ven lindjen perpara perendimint ne kte kohe. as ne qe jemi shqiptar anadollak s'e kemi bere kte gje.
 

Kondrapedali

Kondrapedali
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Orosh, ajo që unë po them është se nuk duhet me bo hesapet pa hanxhinë. Nëse perëndimi kërkon të shtrëngojë Rusinë që kjo të lëshojë Ukrainën unë mendoj se aty mund të ketë komplikime. Nëse ky nuk është shtrëngim por marrëveshje mes perëndimit dhe Rusisë dhe e gjithë kjo maskeradë bëhet për të justifikuar mos-veprimin e Putin atëherë ndryshon çështja.
Gjithsesi mbetet e vërtetë që nëse perëndimi kërkon të lozë në derën e Rusisë pasojat mund të jenë katastrofike së paku për Ukrainën!
 

OROSHI

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Nuk ma merr mendja qe do kete ndonje katastrofe per Ukrainen(per Evropen jo se jo),ka 14 vjet qe Ruset po leshojne pe ne disa drejtime(ekonomike,territore,strategjike) sepse nuk kane nga shkojne,paraja shpon detin.Nacionalizmi Rus eshte zevendesuar me kapitalizmin e eger mafioz.Ukraina besoj qe do ndahet(jo si territor),ose do gjehet nje zgjidhje ne favor te forcave pro-perendimore!!
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Or Yrysh luftaraku! Po te lexosh cfare thote ai Kongresmeni pak perapra do te te vije per te qeshur me budallalleqet qe nxjerr nga goja!
Ti harron se sado keq te jete Ruia ajo perseri eshte ne gjendje qe per 20 mim ta beje shkrumb ameriken, dhe fakti qe amerika mund te beje raprezalje nuk ndryshon dot asgje!
Historia ka treguar se kur kombe te fuqishem vihen pas murit dhe nuk kane ku terhiqen me atehere ata behen te tmerrshem, kujto Gjeramnine e 60 vjeteve perpara!
Ruset more mik nuk jane hallduper shqiptare qe e shesin ****** per 5 lek apo pa lek fare per amerikanet dhe vetem per vendin e tyre nuk luftojne apo punojne!
Ata keto 200 vjetet e fundit i kane mesuar ca gjera Frances se Napoleonit dhe Gjermanise se Hitlerit!
Te gjithe do humbasin nga ndonje konfrontim i mundshem dhe nuk do kete kohe njeri kur shoqata e invalideve dhe paraplegjikeve Serbe do vere perpara me cfurqe trimat kosovare te ferrave dhe do zbarkoje ne Tirane!
Prandaj avash njecike se ste del hesapi! Tyc!
 

gurax

Pan ignoramus
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Orosh, ne fakt disa gjera qe thua mund te jene dhe drejt, por fryma ne te cilen i thua jane komplet jashte linje.
Ai artikull me siper eshte e vertete qe sjell shume informacione dhe nese nuk e lexon ti, kjo s'do te thote qe s'e lexojne te tjeret. Gjuha mund te jete problem, por ne fund te fundit duhet mesuar dikur dhe ajo e shkrete qe te lexosh i qete gazetat Tomorri me lajme te reja. /pf/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Nese Rusia ne 2030 do te jete pjese e bashkimit europian, pse jo ne fund te fundit? Kete as une as ti s'kemi as hijen e njohurive te nevojshme per t'a parashikuar. Po flet per ca sfera teper te larta ne marrjen e vendimeve. Nese ka ndonje dyshim, krahasoje me "parashikueshmerine" e Gjermanise se 1941 ne vitin 1932 kur NSDAP ishte tashme gjeja me e mire qe mund t'i kishte ndodhur popullit gjerman. E jo me 2004 - 2030. Edhe nese ndodh, te jesh i sigurt qe nuk do te ndodhe sepse do i hiqet Rusise nje cope sot ketu, nje cope neser atje, te jete synim ta dobesojme ekonomikisht e me the te thashe. Me kete logjike duhet te trajtojme njelloj edhe Francen, Gjermanine, Italine, Japonine, Kinen, Turqine, etj, sepse duhen dobesuar ekonomikisht. Lista behet shume e gjate dhe besoj edhe ti e kupton qe kjo rruge logjike eshte qe ne fillim e gabuar.
Nga ai artikulli qe pertove ta lexosh me siper, lexo vetem paragrafin e fundit qe fillon me "God knows...", per mua. Dhe kujtohu qe ai qe e ka shkruar eshte me teper sesa gazetar i revistes "Kunji" /pf/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /pf/images/graemlins/smile.gif


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"I'm in awe, Lennier. The way you can take a straightforward, logical proposition and turn it inside-out so that in the end it says .. what you want it to say instead of what it actually means. Does this come naturally or did you .. attend some special martial arts class for the philosophically inclined?" -- Marcus, Babylon 5
 

ados

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

Antare, po ruset kane pervoje ne lufte. Por nuk jane ata ruse qe ishin ne luften e dyte boterore apo akoma me perpara ne 1917.Harrove ti, si ja mbathen ruset ne Afganistan, apo cpo heqin ne Cecenia.Pra ruset e vetmja gje qe mund te bejne eshte nje vrime ne uje. Georgia ishte e pare qe u shkeput nga zinxhiri, rradhen e ka Ukraina...Ketu do jemi, mbas nja 20 vjeteve vetem moska dhe shen peterburgu do te ngelen ne rusi!!Sipas historise ukraina gjithmone ka luftuar ruset. si ne revolucionin e 1917 ashtu edhe ne luften e dyte boterore.Gjermanet arriten 20 km afer moskes fale ndihmes qe kishin nga kozaket.( nje fare rrace e bastarduar midis ruseve, bjolloruseve dhe ukrainasve te sotem)
 

Indulgence

Primus registratum
Re: Ukraina ne shenjester!

This past weekend, doctors in Vienna confirmed that Ukrainian presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko has been suffering from dioxin poisoning. Since September, Yushchenko has had ulcers in his stomach and intestines, problems with his liver and spleen, and disfiguring facial cysts that have left him looking far older than he is...
http://slate.msn.com/id/2110979/?GT1=5936
 
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