Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Sipas informacioneve qe jepen rreth 55% e zgjedhesve franceze votuan te dielen kunder kushtetutes europiane. Cfare mendoni ju te nderuar miq per ceshtjen ne fjale???
 

Urim Nerguti

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Duke jetuar ne France, mendoj se Francezet e ngaterruan votimin per Europen me votimin per qeverisjen e vendit. Te pakenaqur nga qeverisja prej vitesh, nga nje lloj frenimi ekonomik, francezet kane votuar kunder kryeministrit J-P Rafarin, dhe kunder delokalizimit te kompanive franceze jashte vendit. Shto ketu, ekstremistet e djathte, sovranistet, te majtet qe vleresonin qe kjo kushtetute ishte shume liberale, e plot e plot arsye te tjera. Shto ketu edhe hyrjen e Turqise ne UE qe opinioni francez eshte ne shumice kunder, e keshtu tani Europa gjendet pak a shume ne udhekryq...
 

deist

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Franca foli me gjuhen e demokracise.
O boll mire kane votu Francezet. Keta budallenj evropiane (kali dhe magari, perndryshe Zhak Shirak dhe Gerhard Shroder) duan qe terrorizmin Islamik ta shtijne ne evrope permes Turqise. Po si mund qe nje shtet me popullsi terroriste te hyje ne Evrope.
 

alinos

Forumium maestatis
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

edhe pse jam shume skeptike persa i perket EU dhe rolit te saj, perseri ajo qe me shqeteson ne rastin e rrezimit te kushtetutes ne France, eshte "rikthimi" i Le Pen ne skenen politike franceze si triumfator dhe si pretendues ndryshimesh. Ai s'eshte vec misherimi i ksenofobise dhe racizmit, dhe nese ajo jo e Frances eshte nje po ndaj racizmit dhe ethnic cleansing, ne si evropiane kemi nje problem shume te madh.

Info shtese: Franca sot u be dhe me kryeminister te ri. Kush do te lexoje me shume
Villepin, Kryeministri i ri francez
 

notej

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

une mendoj se francezet gjithmone kane qene nje vend qe ka ndikuar negativisht ne zhvillimin e Evropes dhe shyqyr qe me ne fund doli ne pah skutheria e tyre.
I kam inat francezet se jane legena dhe na shiten per percues te ideve te reja :smash:
 

zog

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

e keqja e frances eshte shume e madhe. do te duheshin dite te shpjegohej, bile dhe te analizohej.

sidoqofte ky referendumi tregoi ne menyre flagrante mbi kete te keqe ne te cilen franca ka vite qe jeton duke mos e ditur ose duke mos dashur ta shohe e preke ate.

pergjate ketyre ditesh debatesh pa fund, u vu re, qe frances i mungojne intelektualet e saj te famshem, te cilet dikur i jepnin edhe botes drite.

franca drejtohet sot nga teknokrate (si ky robi qe e bene kryeminister) e injorante te lindur. ne krahasim me keta, ata hajdutet e shqiperise jane lule se u japin gjerave me shpejt drejtim.

pra ose shoqeria franceze s'ka me, ne gjirin e saj, intelektuale te mirefillte, ose keta jetojne te shkeputur nga klasa politike e cila u bene dekada qe po udheheq vendin neper mjegullen europiane.

e keqja eshte se po si franca ndodhen edhe vendet e tjera te europes se vjeter. ndoshta perveç italise me berluskonin ne krye.

sidoqofte kjo "mbyllje ne vetvete" do ti beje veç mire frances. ajo me ne fund do te kete kohe per te pare veten perpara pasqyres.

njih vetveten, pat thene sokrati, per te njohur boten.

ps; populli francez eshte punetor dhe krijues. pranej s'eshte me i qa hallin shume, ai do ta gjeje mundesine ti kaloje pengesat aktuale.
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Bah cfare guximi! I thuhet Frances qe nuk ke intelektuale, apo me e bukura cfare lloj politike ekonomike duhet te ndjekesh!
Ta degjosh kete nga ndonje Gjerman perseri mire nuk te vjen, po nga nje perfaqesuef i nje shteti te pabreke (i la te Sudia se donte te fitonte pa punuar) qe ka 15 vjet qe zbaton kobin ekonomiko-financiar te trumbetuar nga po ata qe duan ti fusin nen rrogoz Frances ("Ekonomine konkuruese te Tregut - lexo -banditizmin ekonomik alla-janki, Fleksibilitetin - lexo - aftesine per te te hedhur ne rruge si e kur te duan etj etj) kjo po te mos ishte dramatike do te ishte komike!

E vetmja rruge per Europen eshte krijimi i Boshtit Paris-Berlin-Moske, hedhja e Anglo-Amerikaneve jashte puneve dhe territoreve te Europes, dhe varrosja e Natos-instrumentit te diktatit Janki ne Europe!
Bo kete hungerrima derrash te tipit Poloni-Shqiperi-(Europe e Re), po keta sic eshte dhe ne natyren e derrave do ti servilosen prape dores qe i ushqen!

Vive la France!


P.S. Nje kendveshtrim te tille prej palacoje atlanticist e kam pare sot edhe te Shekulli nga nje fare Genc Burimi!
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Pa shikoheni edhe nga kjo perspektive?


In a stunning reversal of roles, France went from champion of European integration to staunch defender of French nationalism.
By Stewart Nusbaumer



France soundly rejected Europe’s first proposed constitution and threw the breaks on the further integration of Europe, sending conservative globalists and liberal internationalists into a near panic.

In a national referendum on Sunday, 57 percent of French voters rejected the constitution while only 43 percent supported the proposal.

The product of more than two years of negotiations and signed by European Union leaders in Rome in October, the constitution was designed to make decision-making easier among 25 countries in the bloc, while laying the foundation for a European president and foreign minister, and creating an even more powerful Parliament. In short, the constitution was designed to create something akin to United States of Europe.

Since the European Union's constitution cannot go into force without the backing of all member states, and the French government has been one of the main pillars for greater European integration, the momentum for a more centralized Europe has suddenly been stopped.

According to commentators in France, there are three major reasons for the defeat of the European constitution. First, a majority of French felt that Brussels -- the seat of the European community -- was pushing an “Anglo-Saxon” economic model onto them, which is a system that relies more upon markets and less upon government intervention. Second, there are concerns about Muslim Turkey's entrance into the European Union, which is unpopular in France where a large Muslim minority is not integrated into society and is viewed with suspicion. Finally, with unemployment running at 10 percent in France, voters were turned off by a European constitution that gave national leaders less control over their economy.

But there is more to France's rejection of the European constitution.

The Nationalist Factor

Few words carry a lower reputation in the vernacular of the modern than “nationalism.” It is attacked as the cause of every evil known on this planet, from war to famine to genocide to environmental destruction to narrow mindedness to vile racism to.... Nationalists are slammed as agents of a brutal history, and slandered as reactionaries who are hostile to the very notion of progress.

With nationalism blatantly horrible, it is seldom discussed, just attacked, and then quickly dismissed. European bureaucrats, tucked away in offices in far-off Brussels and feeling confident that the “scourge of Europe” was dead forever, never imagined (until it was too late) that the French tribe would actually vote for nationalism.

In fact, nationalism is far from dead. And it is far from pure evil, being the souce of much good.

In a world that is increasingly elite-driven, with ethnic diversity shrinking and global uniformity more common, with the sense of alienation on the rise and community identity shrinking, the nation state is still looked upon by most people of the world as the best system of government. It is home to most legislation that protects individuals and the environment. It is what people feel the safest with, and it is what they give their greatest loyalty to, after family and friends. Like most people, the French are leery of jumping on the transnational dream.

For some time, Europe -- with France taking a leading role -- has been in the vanguard for greater regionalization, if not with the United States or the New World Order, both of which seek to weaken nation states to enhance the unrestricted flow of capital and labor across national borders. The introduction of the Euro to replace national currencies was considered a major step forward. The coordination of immigration and border control was viewed as a positive act to weaken national sovereignty. And the enactment of the constitution was to be a crowning achievement for the centralization of European power.

The French rejection of the constitution has muddled if not killed (at least for now) the demolition of the European nation state. The referendum’s results are not, however, a statement for isolationism, although that will be the spin put out by the elite. The results are a demand for moderation, to take the political evolution of the transnational slower. But globalists who arrogantly predicted their world-without-borders would soon be realized and internationalists who smugly dismissed nationalists as a legacy of the cave man, they do have something new to worry about. And that is, if they continue to push too hard and too fast with few if any benefits for common people, then their “modern” world could become history in the 21st century.
 

Financieri

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Me boshtin Paris-Berlin-Moske tregove se sa mire e njeh historine. S'ka egzistuar ndonjehere nje aleance qe te kete patur brenda gjermanet dhe ruset mor Kirkegaard, mor Shopenhauer, mor Wittgenstein, mor gjeni i kombit shqiptar.


kujdes me fjalorin!
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Given the Chance, the People Reject "Globalization"
French Say "Non" in Thunder!

By DIANA JOHNSTONE


Paris.

The French went ahead and did it. Despite being lectured by government and party leaders, media pundits and foreign leaders flown in from neighboring countries, all telling them that they must vote "yes" to the Treaty establishing a Constitution for the European Union or the sky would fall, a solid majority of 55% voted "no"! The high turnout of 70% gave the rejection indisputable credibility.

This was essentially a vote against dogmatic free market policies, and the type of economic globalization being pursued by the "neo-liberal" free marketeers.

The "non" was resounding, and, for those who were listening, the message was clear. But who was really listening?

The day after the vote, mainstream politicians and media were all scurrying to misinterpret the event to suit their own repudiated agendas. No wonder, because the referendum result amounted to an extraordinary rejection not only of a bad text, but also of the whole political class -- newspaper and television commentators included -- who had zealously resorted to every possible exhortation, deception and threat to sell the "oui" vote.

And it was not only the ardent salesmanship of the familiar faces on the screen that was rejected. The "non" was also an expression of exasperation with the whole lot of mainstream politicians and media stars, the "oui-ouistes" as they were dubbed, for years of preening self-satisfaction and unfulfilled promises as more and more businesses shut down leaving employees out in the cold. Part of the satisfaction of voting "non" was to watch television and see the consternation on all those familiar faces, and listen to each one's frantic attempts to blame the others for the disaster in
hopes of salvaging his or her own political career. This was a highly amusing spectacle, but also extremely disturbing. Because although the meaning of the vote was clearly a desire to throw all the rascals out, they are still there. They are still there in the media especially, where they need not fear losing the next election. They are there to interpret events as it suits them, not least to the rest of Europe and the world.

The interpretations of the French vote making the rounds display an unshakable determination not to understand what happened.

Of course, all the stale, ignorant clichés about "the French" are being trotted out. Typically, to explain the French psychology, the International Herald Tribune quoted a Polish human resources consultant on a Warsaw parkbench, who opined that "France still has nostalgia for its empire". No doubt people all over Europe and in the United States could come up with the same absurdity, because that's what their media tell them.

That being the case, let it be observed that France's "nostalgia for empire" is a fantasy, especially current among certain imperialist Americans who cannot conceive of any lesser national ambition. There has been no significant nostalgia for empire in France since President de Gaulle decided over forty years ago that it was in France's best interest to withdraw from its colonies. In any case, that has absolutely nothing whatever to do with the May 29 vote. Exit polls showed that the number one motive for the "no" vote -- 56% of respondants -- was the state of the economy. This means unemployment. Because in terms of business profits, the French economy is not doing so badly, thank you. But ten percent official unemployment, as profitable firms shut down plant to move to countries with cheaper labor, is considered intolerable.

The second motive indicated, with 46%, was the "neo-liberal" nature of the Constitution treaty. The third most frequently mentioned motive was the desire to have the Constitution renegotiated.

These data show clearly that the vote was not "against Europe". Of course, there were bound to be contradictory motives behind the no vote -- and behind the yes vote as well. The far right National Front voted "no" to the European Union, which will surely be the choice of an even larger segment in the United Kingdom, if the UK referendum takes place. But the bulk of the French "non" was pro-European and anti-globalization. If anything, it was for a stronger Europe more inclined and able to resist the destructive thrust of globalization and to protect social and environmental standards.

On the right, voters wanted to preserve national sovereignty. There is nothing really so dreadful about that. But most of the "no" vote came from the left. Despite increasingly frantic efforts by their party leaders to shore up the "yes" vote, a large majority of Socialists (59%) and an overwhelming majority of Greens voted "no". The current leaders of those parties are in for a rough time. Socialist Party leader François Hollande is perhaps the major casualty, with his main rival, Laurent Fabius, who prudently endorsed the "non", waiting politely in the wings to take over the shattered party.

The party leader who comes out of this test with flying colors is Marie-George Buffet, who may have succeeded in saving the French Communist Party from total oblivion by cutting loose from the Socialist Party while at the same time abandoning all past sectarianism in favor of a unitary campaign with the whole rejectionist spectrum from the center to the left, includingTrotskyists, dissident Socialists and Greens. An eventual left coalition with Laurent Fabius can be imagined.

Meanwhile, the Eurocrats who were warning of a cataclysm in case the French voted the wrong way, are trying to pretend that nothing has happened. The particularly unattractive Portuguese head of the European Commission, Jose Manuel Barroso, and the current Luxembourgeois head of the European Council, Jean-Claude Juncker, announced blandly that the ratification process will go ahead as planned in spite of this "accident de parcours" -- a chance mishap, like a flat tire to be repaired before continuing in the same direction. However, legally, the Constitution cannot go into effect unless it is ratified by all 25 member States. Rather than recognize that the French have killed this text, and demanded a better one, the Eurocrats sputter that it's not fair for one country to decide for all the others. But one reason people voted against the proposed Constitution was precisely that it required unanimity for amendment, meaning any country could decide no for all the others.

In a couple of days, the Dutch will vote. Their no will probably have a somewhat different coloration than the French, but so what? There is in fact an emerging clash between the sort of "European construction" pursued over the heads of Europe's people and democracy. If "Europe" can't be constructed democratically, should it be constructed at all?

The biggest question mark is Germany, where the left is already in political crisis because of the drastic anti-social economic reforms pursued relentlessly by the "pink and green" government of Gerhard Schroeder. The Social Democratic Party (SPD) was just voted out of office in its last major stronghold, North Rhine Westphalia. Oskar Lafontaine, who left the leadership of the SPD years ago in disagreement over Schroeder's turn to neoliberalism, has now officially left the SPD and is working to create a new more progressive party. At a "non de gauche" rally on the eve of the French vote, Lafontaine was given a huge, overwhelming ovation that obviously left him deeply moved. The revival of the French left around the referendum has encouraged Lafontaine to try to revive the German left. While mainstream Germans converged on Paris condescendingly lecturing people who knew more about the Treaty than they did, Lafontaine is one German who understands perfectly what this vote was all about. And there are more. The crucial task for the future of Europe will depend on cooperation between the French and German left in explaining the meaning of the French rejection to the Germans and in inspiring a new common political course.

President Chirac warned that France would be the "black sheep" of Europe if it refused to ratify the Constitution. Significantly, Germany ratified the Constitution by an overwhelming vote -- of the Bundestag. If French ratification had been up to the National Assembly, the "yes" vote would have been just as overwhelming. The German Constitution bans popular referendums. But one can imagine that a popular referendum in Germany might have produced exactly the same result: at first, polls would have shown a majority in favor, but little by little, as people examined and discussed the actual text, opinion would have shifted. After all, the economic situation in Germany is even quite a bit worse than in France. The reasons to reject free market dogma are equally valid in both countries.

For this to be realized, trade unionists and political activists have to overcome the obstacle of chronic media misrepresentation. For this, they have a new weapon, which already played a significant role in the campaign for the "non" -- the web.
 

109UV

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Keto dogmat anti-globalizim jane po aq te padurueshme sa edhe perrallat e antares. Franca, nje nga vendet me me shume mekate ne kolonizimin, perdhunimin, dhe grabitjen e dhjetra vendeve ne shekullin e kaluar si edhe kete shekull, pretendon qe eshte kunder globalizimit. Por, Franca dhe francezet jane vetem kunder te keqijave qe ata perceptojne nga globalizimi; ama nuk jane kunder te mirave qe vijne prej perdhunimit ne shkalle globale. Franca ka me mijra kompani qe operojne ne te gjithe boten, shume prej tyre qe operojne ne menyre imorale duke bashkepunuar me diktatura, shfrytezuar popullsine dhe resurset e shteteve te pazhvilluara, etj. Keto nuk behen vetem prej francezeve, por nuk kuptoj perse francezet nuk shikojne veten ne pasqyre dhe te kuptojne qe jane nje shoqeri hipokrite.

Mua me vjen keq qe francezet i thane jo kushtetutes evropiane vetem sepse kjo krijon pasiguri per unionin evropian qe eshte shpresa e vetme e ballkanit per te hyre ne shoqerine globale, dhe ne kete menyre dhe shpresa e vetme per shqiperine qe te hyje ne shoqerine globale.

megjithate, ndoshta shpetimi per shqiperine do vije nga boshti franko-gjerman-rus-kinez-kore e veriut /pf/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /pf/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

antares

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Mos u bej merak se nuk pranon njeri ne Europe nje leber morale e politike sic eshte Shqiperia! Ti mor kujton se meqe nuk te lejoka Franca e te tjeret te futesh ne EU nga dera do te futesh nga dritarja "kur Franca te mos e kete mendjen"!
Shko lepiju amerikes me mire!
Edhe Gjermania (po te mos e votonte me Parlament) do ti kishte thene nje jo te forte pacavures atlanticiste qe u serviret vendeve Europiane!

Vive la France!

Prit pak se tani do flase edhe Hollanda!
 

eli

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Antares djali,

Sa per Gjermanine e kishe gabim se sondazhet jepshin ma se 60 perqind te popullsise per Po-ne edhe Gjermanet kane historine e tyne te tille qe s'mund te thojne jo.

Edhe per Francen e kishe gabim. Pse t'vjen keq ty per me thane se Francezet jane Krapa. Ka ike ajo koha e "dritave" ose te ndriturve n'france e itesh kane mete n'terr. A mos kujtunen francezet se ta po bajne Perandorine e Napoleonit tu kerku kushtetute franceze per Evropen ? Shko fol ifije me francezet e masanej hajde fol ktu. Mu m'ka ndodh shpesh me fol me ta e di me te thane qe kane opinion per gjithça edhe kur s'dine asgja. Edhe kur jua ban me dite kyt pune ata prape vazhdojne ne mene te tynen. E kane si shprehi me thane : "Po ke te drejte po edhe une s'e kam gabim". Edhe kur mendimet jane krejt te ndryshme. Per ma RRypa s'ka. E ikyt pune e banen me dite ne dite te referendumit. T'kishin kene kaq te squte kishin dite te pakten me rujte lidhjet (privilegjet) me ish-kolonite e tyne po jua rruvi (pardon) amerikani nji ka nji.

Po per me maru kyt muhabet si e thojne ne Belgjike :"Franca ka si embleme Gjelin, se asht i vetmi shpend qe knon me kamet ne M**".
 

gurax

Pan ignoramus
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Fillimisht postuar nga L&P:
[qb] Shto ketu edhe hyrjen e Turqise ne UE qe opinioni francez eshte ne shumice kunder, e keshtu tani Europa gjendet pak a shume ne udhekryq... [/qb]
Kjo eshte nje nga arsyet kryesore te mohimit te kushtetutes se Europes!

Kushtetuta Europiane predikon barazine e vendeve perkatese! Dhe ne kete aspekt, te na pelqeje apo jo ne apo kujdto tjeter, francezet nuk mund te pranojne qe te jene te barabarte me turqit. As me rumunet. As me vendet Balltike! As me greket! Disi me ndryshe me italianet!
Dhe po keshtu edhe belget, holandezet, gjermanet po e po!

Sidoqfte nuk duhen thene me ze te larte keto gjera, se vijne perparimtaret me helikoptere dhe na drejtojne gryken e perparimit per racizem!
 

eli

Primus registratum
Re: Franca rrezon Kushtetuten europiane!

Po atehere ça dojme na Gurax, qe kerkojme me hy n'Evrope kur dihet mire se jena rraca ma e mire n'bote ?
 
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