C'mendoni???
Rastesisht duke kerkuar dicka ne internet pashe kete shkrim marre nga nje forum. Mua nuk me pelqeu, po ju c'mendoni? Sa te tjere mund ta kene lexuar kete shkrim?
Lexojeni dhe mendoni pak per ndonje qe mund te kete lexuar dhe qe nuk e ka idene e historise se Sqiperise se c'mund te mendoje.
Albanians are NOT Illyrians..evidence
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I vould like this to be civilized discussion.I will post logical arguments against Illyrian origin of Albanians,and I want logical arguments against it.
Illyrian theory of Albanians has been created in late 19 century linguists.Reason for that is fact that Albanian language cannot be classified into ANY known branch of Indo-European.Although Indo-European,Albanian is most distant from all languages of that family.
So some Croatian,SERBIAN and German linguists have said that Albanian COULD BE descentant of ancient Illyrian.
That was before research of CAUCASIAN languages.
Also that was before of findings of inscriptions on VENETIAN.
Venetii were most western branch of Illyrians,and have lived in Histria(Istra)and Veneto region in Italy.
Also there were found inscriptions on thombstone in Sqoder in Albania..."ANA OETHE ISER".
And on ancient Venetian..."MEXO ZOTO VHUXSIIA VOTNA SHAIN ATEI REITIIAI OP VOLTIIO LENO" and
"PLETEI VEIXNOI KARANMNIIOI EKUPETHARIS EXO".
Those inscriptions are probably only thing we have from ancient Illyrians.We can see strong diftong structure,and afiliation towards Hellenic(Greek language).
Illyrians were under great Greek cultural influence,as we can see from archaelogy.Although enemies Greeks and Illyrians have good trading relationships.
Illyrian battle helmet was very similar to Greek,and Illyrians have imported bronze and clay pottery from Greece.
Albania was very early under Greek colonisation process.
Illyrian lands came under Roman rule very early,about 2 cent.b.c.Illyrians had their elements of state in DALMATIA.They show resistance under BATON and TEUTA,but they were crushed.Center of Illyrian state of Teuta was in HVAR island in CROATIA.
Under Roman rule Illyrians have been FULLY ROMANIZED.
Romans have also bring collonists from Italy and other regions of empire.
In 3 century a.d Illyrians cease to exists as ethnicity.
They were merged with Thracians,Celts and Italics.
Population of western Balkans during Roman times have spoke Latin derived language(Latinus vulgaris).
Tombstones,remnants of inscriptions in both Aristocrate and farmer items shows FULLY LATINIZATION.
Illyrians(now Romans)had Roman identities,and have become most fanatical defenders of empire.
Their common names shows Greek afinities.
Emperor Diocletian real name was DIOCLES.
Probably Illyrians have belong to same group of Indo-Europeans as Hellenes(Greeks).
Only thing that has left of Illyrians were name of province(ILLYRICUM).By that name Romans considered territory of central Balkan.
Illyricum was territory for recruiting Legionaires,like GALLIA(France).
Romans have build cities and roads all across Balkans.
In Albania(and in Kosovo)Romans have build systems of roads.Early inscriptions shows some Illyrian influence(like the ones above),while later are only on LATIN.
Albania was among first territory to become Roman.
It is impossible that some Illyrians could survive in isolation,for such a long time.
Also Illyrian language was far from todays Albanian.
Kosovo was inhabited by DARDANIANS,which were mixed Illyro-Thracian population.Center of dardanians was Skopje(Scupi).
Dardanians have been among best legionaires from Balkans.Their tombstones shows LATIN inscriptions and identification.
Roman empire was melting pot,and in late empire population have fully identified with Rome.
In 4 cent.population of Roman empire was christianized.
Archeological evidence shows that late Roman were very religious christians,although some pagans have managed to survive in eastern Serbia and Bulgaria all the way to Slavic settling.
Do we still have descendants of those Latinized Illyrians?
YES!
Those are VLACHS and AROUMANIANS(CINCARI).
Vlachs are latin speaking aboriginals of balkans,and they have lived and still live in Serbia,Bulgaria,Greece and ALBANIA.
Vlachs have lived in Dalmatia(MORLACS)and in Bosnia until 18 century.Now they are absorbed.
Romanians are also aboriginals of balkans and latin speakers.
Romania was under Roman rule for about 100 years.But Romanians are fully latinized.Romania is much more larger then Albania.
Albania was under Roman rule over 600 years.
Vlachs,Aromanians and Romanians share common Roman origin.Romanians are mixure of Dacians and Roman colonists,and Vlachs and Aromanians are mixure of Illyrians/Thracians/Celts with Roman colonists.
Later Balkan latins identify with Byzantine empire and with Greek culture.
There is no archaelogical evidence of transition between Illyrians and Albanians.
However there is evidence of transition between Illyrians and Vlachs.
Aromanians(Cincari) are form of Vlachs.Unlike other Vlachs,Aromanians are urban population.
They say that they are descendent of 5 Roman legion,and that they came from Macedonia.
Indeed 5=CINQUE=CINCAR.
And there have been LEGIONES V.DARDANORUM,which had defended this part of limes from barbarians.
Dardanians are from Macedonia and Kosovo.
Aromanians are direct descendants os Dardanians.
Albanians are never mentioned in Roman or Byzantine chronicles.They suddenly apear in 11 century.
Territory of Albania was inhabited by slavs also,and there are still Serbs ans Macedonians living there.
Albanians are mentioned as nomadic sheperds.
French crusaders described Albanians as people who live in TENTS(nomadic origin?).This was mentioned in 12 century.
Albanians were not majority in Albania before 17 century.
AROMANIANS were majority,and their center was MOSCOPOLIS in central Albania,near Tirana.
Albanian tribes have wipped them in several attacs in 17 and 18 century.There are still Aromanians in south and central Albania today,as tiny minority.
In middle ages Albanians(Arvanitoi,Arbanasi)were small ethnic group,almost non existant.
They have been minority in Albania,and in Kosovo they have been almost non existent.
So who are Albanians really?
It is interesting that they are first mentioned in 11 century.That correspond with PECHENEG and KUMAN invasion from east.
Kumans were nomadic tribe from asia wich came with some OTHER groups in Balkans.They have pass through Bulgaria ,Macedonia and what is today Albania.
Albanians(Shqiptar)were caucasian group which came with them.
Albanian language shows close grammatical and sythaxical similarity with CIRCASSIAN(LEZGIAN)languages.
caucassian languages are different between eachother,but they have same structure and accentation.
Albanian language shows same afinities.
Closest to Albanian are CHECHEN,INGUSH and UDI(LEZGIAN).Udi is last remnant of ancient caucasian ALBANIAN.
Links...Chechen grammar and dictionary=ingush.narod.ru/chech/awde/
Udi grammar and dictionary...www.Irz-muenchen.de/~wschulze/Uog.html
Check links "Udi and problem of circassian Albania" and
link with Udi text "Yesiraq'i pashtag".
Only Albanian historic figure was Gheoghi Kastrioti(Skenderbeg).He was however Greek noble Georgios Kastriotes.He had lead Albanian tribes and Vlachs against Turks.Most of their fighters were Aromanians.
Albanians were just one of them(from Kruje region).
Albanian eagle was derived from Byzantine and Serbian double headed eagle.Those early CHERKEZ Albanians have identify with Serbian and Byzantine state.
Under Skenderbeg they wage war against the Turks under banner of two headed eagle.
Thus they called themselves 'people of eagle'=SHQIPTAR.
Albanians never had strong national awerness.
They preserve tribal structure and customes from caucasus,which are so alien to Greeks and Serbs.
With conversion to Islam,actually starts Albanian expansion.
Albanians first appear in Kosovo in late 14 cent. as sheperds.They have came there probably leading herds of sheeps and goats from mountains of northern Albania to Metohija valley.
Original Albanians were concentrated in Kruja region,and starts to spread to north and south.
With Islam Albanians got agressive expansionist ideology.
In Ottoman empire they become instrument of Islamization.In name of Islam they have destroyed Aromanian majority,and lots of them become Albanized(TOSCS).Islamisation also meant Albanisation.
Albanians have turn into albanians a lot of aboriginal population.
Kosovo,with its fertile land was special prize.
Shumbi and Malisori tribes have penetrated durind Turkish times in Kosovo,starting to terorize christian(Serbian and Vlach population)and converting them into Islam.Those Islamized Serbs became Albanians.
Some remember their Serbian origins(Goranci).
Kosovo is Serbian word.It means land of Kos(Blackbird,similar to raven).Central region of Kosovo is SRBICA.
"Kosova"is albanized Serbian word,and it means nothing in Albanian.
Most of cities in Albania was builded by Italians,Greeks and Serbs,before appearance of Albanians from caucasus.
Idea of uniting all Albanians came with "Prizren ligue".
The goal was to create Albanians as most elite members of OTTOMAN EMPIRE.They consider Albanians as leading banner of Islam.
Albanians have took Illyrian theory with passion.It give them exuse from expansionism.Also it give them exuse to terrorize other ethnic groups.
Albanian state was created with help of Italy and Austro-Hungaria,to stop Serbian expansion to adriatic.
Albanians were mostly instrument of foreign powers..Turks,Italians,Americans...
First president of Albania was Fan Noli,an Aroumanian.
He was owerthroned and replaced by king Zogu,with help from king Alexander of Yugoslavia.
Albanian today give their children names like ILJIR or DARDAN.However they cannot claim past of other nations.
CONCLUSIONS...
Albanian language is morphologically circassian language,with strong influences of Greek,Italian and Serbian.
Vlachs and Aromanians are true descendants of Illyrians.
Albanians(as nation)are caucasian people.
Original Illyrians were of mediterean and dinaric race.
Original Albanians were of Armenoid race.
Original Serbs were of nordic and baltic race.
Both Albanians and Serbs today are of dinaric/med,like Illyrians of ancient times.
Both Serbs and Albanians have some Illyrian blood in them.
Some surnames are not Slavic,but rather latin,like Macura=Mazzura,Kapisoda,Basara.
Others are slavicized latin Galovic=Gallo,Demajorovic=De Major.
Serbs and Albanians as nations cannot claim Illyrian ancestry.Only Vlachs and Aromanians can.
Serbs are defined as Slavs,Albanians as Lezgian.
Racially both Serbs and Albanians are balkan nations.
Center of Dinaric race is MONTENEGRO.And,no Montenegrins are not slavicized Albanians.Only Kuchi clan from Montenegro is from Albanian origin.
Ghegs are original circassian Albanians,while Tosks are albanized Greeks and Aromanians.
Only states which can say that they are aboriginal on Balkans are GREECE and ROMANIA.
Rastesisht duke kerkuar dicka ne internet pashe kete shkrim marre nga nje forum. Mua nuk me pelqeu, po ju c'mendoni? Sa te tjere mund ta kene lexuar kete shkrim?
Lexojeni dhe mendoni pak per ndonje qe mund te kete lexuar dhe qe nuk e ka idene e historise se Sqiperise se c'mund te mendoje.
Albanians are NOT Illyrians..evidence
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I vould like this to be civilized discussion.I will post logical arguments against Illyrian origin of Albanians,and I want logical arguments against it.
Illyrian theory of Albanians has been created in late 19 century linguists.Reason for that is fact that Albanian language cannot be classified into ANY known branch of Indo-European.Although Indo-European,Albanian is most distant from all languages of that family.
So some Croatian,SERBIAN and German linguists have said that Albanian COULD BE descentant of ancient Illyrian.
That was before research of CAUCASIAN languages.
Also that was before of findings of inscriptions on VENETIAN.
Venetii were most western branch of Illyrians,and have lived in Histria(Istra)and Veneto region in Italy.
Also there were found inscriptions on thombstone in Sqoder in Albania..."ANA OETHE ISER".
And on ancient Venetian..."MEXO ZOTO VHUXSIIA VOTNA SHAIN ATEI REITIIAI OP VOLTIIO LENO" and
"PLETEI VEIXNOI KARANMNIIOI EKUPETHARIS EXO".
Those inscriptions are probably only thing we have from ancient Illyrians.We can see strong diftong structure,and afiliation towards Hellenic(Greek language).
Illyrians were under great Greek cultural influence,as we can see from archaelogy.Although enemies Greeks and Illyrians have good trading relationships.
Illyrian battle helmet was very similar to Greek,and Illyrians have imported bronze and clay pottery from Greece.
Albania was very early under Greek colonisation process.
Illyrian lands came under Roman rule very early,about 2 cent.b.c.Illyrians had their elements of state in DALMATIA.They show resistance under BATON and TEUTA,but they were crushed.Center of Illyrian state of Teuta was in HVAR island in CROATIA.
Under Roman rule Illyrians have been FULLY ROMANIZED.
Romans have also bring collonists from Italy and other regions of empire.
In 3 century a.d Illyrians cease to exists as ethnicity.
They were merged with Thracians,Celts and Italics.
Population of western Balkans during Roman times have spoke Latin derived language(Latinus vulgaris).
Tombstones,remnants of inscriptions in both Aristocrate and farmer items shows FULLY LATINIZATION.
Illyrians(now Romans)had Roman identities,and have become most fanatical defenders of empire.
Their common names shows Greek afinities.
Emperor Diocletian real name was DIOCLES.
Probably Illyrians have belong to same group of Indo-Europeans as Hellenes(Greeks).
Only thing that has left of Illyrians were name of province(ILLYRICUM).By that name Romans considered territory of central Balkan.
Illyricum was territory for recruiting Legionaires,like GALLIA(France).
Romans have build cities and roads all across Balkans.
In Albania(and in Kosovo)Romans have build systems of roads.Early inscriptions shows some Illyrian influence(like the ones above),while later are only on LATIN.
Albania was among first territory to become Roman.
It is impossible that some Illyrians could survive in isolation,for such a long time.
Also Illyrian language was far from todays Albanian.
Kosovo was inhabited by DARDANIANS,which were mixed Illyro-Thracian population.Center of dardanians was Skopje(Scupi).
Dardanians have been among best legionaires from Balkans.Their tombstones shows LATIN inscriptions and identification.
Roman empire was melting pot,and in late empire population have fully identified with Rome.
In 4 cent.population of Roman empire was christianized.
Archeological evidence shows that late Roman were very religious christians,although some pagans have managed to survive in eastern Serbia and Bulgaria all the way to Slavic settling.
Do we still have descendants of those Latinized Illyrians?
YES!
Those are VLACHS and AROUMANIANS(CINCARI).
Vlachs are latin speaking aboriginals of balkans,and they have lived and still live in Serbia,Bulgaria,Greece and ALBANIA.
Vlachs have lived in Dalmatia(MORLACS)and in Bosnia until 18 century.Now they are absorbed.
Romanians are also aboriginals of balkans and latin speakers.
Romania was under Roman rule for about 100 years.But Romanians are fully latinized.Romania is much more larger then Albania.
Albania was under Roman rule over 600 years.
Vlachs,Aromanians and Romanians share common Roman origin.Romanians are mixure of Dacians and Roman colonists,and Vlachs and Aromanians are mixure of Illyrians/Thracians/Celts with Roman colonists.
Later Balkan latins identify with Byzantine empire and with Greek culture.
There is no archaelogical evidence of transition between Illyrians and Albanians.
However there is evidence of transition between Illyrians and Vlachs.
Aromanians(Cincari) are form of Vlachs.Unlike other Vlachs,Aromanians are urban population.
They say that they are descendent of 5 Roman legion,and that they came from Macedonia.
Indeed 5=CINQUE=CINCAR.
And there have been LEGIONES V.DARDANORUM,which had defended this part of limes from barbarians.
Dardanians are from Macedonia and Kosovo.
Aromanians are direct descendants os Dardanians.
Albanians are never mentioned in Roman or Byzantine chronicles.They suddenly apear in 11 century.
Territory of Albania was inhabited by slavs also,and there are still Serbs ans Macedonians living there.
Albanians are mentioned as nomadic sheperds.
French crusaders described Albanians as people who live in TENTS(nomadic origin?).This was mentioned in 12 century.
Albanians were not majority in Albania before 17 century.
AROMANIANS were majority,and their center was MOSCOPOLIS in central Albania,near Tirana.
Albanian tribes have wipped them in several attacs in 17 and 18 century.There are still Aromanians in south and central Albania today,as tiny minority.
In middle ages Albanians(Arvanitoi,Arbanasi)were small ethnic group,almost non existant.
They have been minority in Albania,and in Kosovo they have been almost non existent.
So who are Albanians really?
It is interesting that they are first mentioned in 11 century.That correspond with PECHENEG and KUMAN invasion from east.
Kumans were nomadic tribe from asia wich came with some OTHER groups in Balkans.They have pass through Bulgaria ,Macedonia and what is today Albania.
Albanians(Shqiptar)were caucasian group which came with them.
Albanian language shows close grammatical and sythaxical similarity with CIRCASSIAN(LEZGIAN)languages.
caucassian languages are different between eachother,but they have same structure and accentation.
Albanian language shows same afinities.
Closest to Albanian are CHECHEN,INGUSH and UDI(LEZGIAN).Udi is last remnant of ancient caucasian ALBANIAN.
Links...Chechen grammar and dictionary=ingush.narod.ru/chech/awde/
Udi grammar and dictionary...www.Irz-muenchen.de/~wschulze/Uog.html
Check links "Udi and problem of circassian Albania" and
link with Udi text "Yesiraq'i pashtag".
Only Albanian historic figure was Gheoghi Kastrioti(Skenderbeg).He was however Greek noble Georgios Kastriotes.He had lead Albanian tribes and Vlachs against Turks.Most of their fighters were Aromanians.
Albanians were just one of them(from Kruje region).
Albanian eagle was derived from Byzantine and Serbian double headed eagle.Those early CHERKEZ Albanians have identify with Serbian and Byzantine state.
Under Skenderbeg they wage war against the Turks under banner of two headed eagle.
Thus they called themselves 'people of eagle'=SHQIPTAR.
Albanians never had strong national awerness.
They preserve tribal structure and customes from caucasus,which are so alien to Greeks and Serbs.
With conversion to Islam,actually starts Albanian expansion.
Albanians first appear in Kosovo in late 14 cent. as sheperds.They have came there probably leading herds of sheeps and goats from mountains of northern Albania to Metohija valley.
Original Albanians were concentrated in Kruja region,and starts to spread to north and south.
With Islam Albanians got agressive expansionist ideology.
In Ottoman empire they become instrument of Islamization.In name of Islam they have destroyed Aromanian majority,and lots of them become Albanized(TOSCS).Islamisation also meant Albanisation.
Albanians have turn into albanians a lot of aboriginal population.
Kosovo,with its fertile land was special prize.
Shumbi and Malisori tribes have penetrated durind Turkish times in Kosovo,starting to terorize christian(Serbian and Vlach population)and converting them into Islam.Those Islamized Serbs became Albanians.
Some remember their Serbian origins(Goranci).
Kosovo is Serbian word.It means land of Kos(Blackbird,similar to raven).Central region of Kosovo is SRBICA.
"Kosova"is albanized Serbian word,and it means nothing in Albanian.
Most of cities in Albania was builded by Italians,Greeks and Serbs,before appearance of Albanians from caucasus.
Idea of uniting all Albanians came with "Prizren ligue".
The goal was to create Albanians as most elite members of OTTOMAN EMPIRE.They consider Albanians as leading banner of Islam.
Albanians have took Illyrian theory with passion.It give them exuse from expansionism.Also it give them exuse to terrorize other ethnic groups.
Albanian state was created with help of Italy and Austro-Hungaria,to stop Serbian expansion to adriatic.
Albanians were mostly instrument of foreign powers..Turks,Italians,Americans...
First president of Albania was Fan Noli,an Aroumanian.
He was owerthroned and replaced by king Zogu,with help from king Alexander of Yugoslavia.
Albanian today give their children names like ILJIR or DARDAN.However they cannot claim past of other nations.
CONCLUSIONS...
Albanian language is morphologically circassian language,with strong influences of Greek,Italian and Serbian.
Vlachs and Aromanians are true descendants of Illyrians.
Albanians(as nation)are caucasian people.
Original Illyrians were of mediterean and dinaric race.
Original Albanians were of Armenoid race.
Original Serbs were of nordic and baltic race.
Both Albanians and Serbs today are of dinaric/med,like Illyrians of ancient times.
Both Serbs and Albanians have some Illyrian blood in them.
Some surnames are not Slavic,but rather latin,like Macura=Mazzura,Kapisoda,Basara.
Others are slavicized latin Galovic=Gallo,Demajorovic=De Major.
Serbs and Albanians as nations cannot claim Illyrian ancestry.Only Vlachs and Aromanians can.
Serbs are defined as Slavs,Albanians as Lezgian.
Racially both Serbs and Albanians are balkan nations.
Center of Dinaric race is MONTENEGRO.And,no Montenegrins are not slavicized Albanians.Only Kuchi clan from Montenegro is from Albanian origin.
Ghegs are original circassian Albanians,while Tosks are albanized Greeks and Aromanians.
Only states which can say that they are aboriginal on Balkans are GREECE and ROMANIA.